What happened to malwarebytes


Rainbow_2 wrote:

Should I decide to try the FREE version of v2, I wonder whether it would be enough to uninstall MBAM from Control Panel > Programs and Features and reboot?


Hi Rainbow_2:

 

I haven't tried the upgrade yet but Malwarebytes recommends an over-the-top installation - see the support file How do I upgrade Malwarebytes Anti-Malware version 1.75 to 2.0?  If you want to keep your free version for now, just decline the free trial offer of Malwarebytes Anti-Malware Premium at the end of the upgrade as mentioned in step 13 of the instructions.

 

If an over-the-top upgrade causes problems, instructions for a clean re-install using the MBAM Clean removal tool are posted here .  I just tried a download of the removal tool and the current version is mbam-clean-2.0.2.0.exe so it appears that the tool was recently updated to include a wipe of MBAM v. 2.x files.

 

EDIT:

 

Instructions for activating the free version of MBAM v. 2.00 with your purchased license key can be found in the Installation >> Activation section of the online  v. 2.x user guide at http://www.malwarebytes.org/support/guides/mbam/.  A PDF of the v. 2.x User Guide is also available here.

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MS Windows 32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox 28.0 * IE 9.0 * NIS 2013 v. 20.4.0.40 * MBAM PRO 1.75.0.1300
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

 

Thanks, lmacri,for your reply.

 

Considering the not "so-happy" comments about v.2 here and in other threads/boards as well, I decided to stick to v1.75 and wait for MBAM to fix what is not yet working properly in v2.

I did however activate my previously free version of v1.75 which is now a  PRO version, and of course I disabled the real-time protection unchecking a few boxes in the Protection Section, following your and other Members' valuable advices :smileyhappy:

 

Thank you very much again, also for the great support you always give! 

Hi Rainbow_2:

All credit goes to PhoneMan, who beta-tested MBAM v. 2.0 and posted a link here to the new MBAM user guide.

I currently have my MBAM PRO v. 1.75 protection modlue disabled, but I'm trying to be less dogmatic than I've been in the past about warning users against running Norton and MBAM together in real-time protection mode - see my comments here in Inquirer's thread titled Questions About Malwarebytes.  I'm planning to repeat my AMTSO tests with the MBAM Premium v. 2.0 heuristic detection engine after I upgrade and then decide whether I'm going to enable MBAM's real-time protection.

There's an interesting thread on this topic pinned in the bleepingcomputer forum titled Answers to Common Security Questions - Best Practices.  In post # 2 of that thread (Choosing an Anti-Virus Program) Microsoft MVP and malware removal expert quietman7 recommends that users never install more than one anti-virus program:

"Anti-virus software components insert themselves deep into the operating systems core where they install kernel mode drivers that load at boot-up regardless of whether real-time protection is enabled or not. Thus, using multiple anti-virus solutions can result in kernel mode conflicts causing system instability, catastrophic crashes, slow performance and waste vital system resources."

However, in post # 4 of that same thread (Supplementing Your Anti-Virus Program with Anti-Malware Tools) quietman7 goes on to recommend that users purchase one anti-malware program like MBAM or SUPERAntiSpyware and activate the protection module to provide additional protection against zero-day threats and lower-risk PUPs often missed by anti-virus programs:

"I recommend taking advantage of the Malwarebytes Anti-Malware (Premium) Protection Module in the full version which uses advanced heuristic scanning technology to monitor your system and provide real-time protection to prevent the installation of most new malware...The Protection Module is not intrusive as it utilizes few system resources and should not conflict with other scanners or anti-virus programs..."

 

Again, I'm not advocating for or against enabling the real-time protection in MBAM Premium v. 2.0.  I'm only suggesting that users weigh the evidence and then make a decision that best suits their own security needs.
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MS Windows 32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox 28.0 * IE 9.0 * NIS 2013 v. 20.4.0.40 * MBAM PRO 1.75.0.1300
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Against my own advice and many others here also, I have enabled the protection module in MBAM 1.75 for testing and so far the only thing I've noticed was a JavaScript error when I first opened IE11.  After restarting my system I haven't seen that error since, but I will monitor the situation for a while.

 

I will run with protection enabled for a few days and if no more problems present I will run the AMTSO tests one more time and re-check the results.

 

Cheers,

Dave

I am glad to see an open mind regarding running Malwarebytes and Norton together. I have done so for years with no problems but its always best to have other input. For the last 3 weeks I have been running Malwarebytes ver 2.00.0.1000 RC_1 (which was unchanged and released as Final this week) along with NIS on my W7 and W8.1 systems and it is running great. The Malwarebytes engineers have stated in the past that Malwarebytes works different than AV programs and is designed and tested with the major AV programs to ensure no conflicts. Malwarebytes is still refining v2 and we should see more improvements in the coming weeks. Hope to see more input after ya'll complete your tests.

 

Jim

Cheers to all of you.

 

Personally I got tired of people telling me what works and doesn't work.

I got into an argument here with an expert telling me that ZoneAlarm Pro (firewall only) conflicts with NAV because it has a realtime module.

I had that combination on 3 systems for several years and people here were trying to tell me I was wrong, or I had a problem but just couldn't notice it. LOL

People who never even tried it telling me it doesn't work.

 

I never tried running MB pro alongside NIS but the people who make it say it was never designed to replace AV and it's to be run alongside a AV.

Since they only make money from the pro versions you would think they would try hard to make sure it does not conflict with the top selling AV product (Norton).

 

I always thought it was to broad of a statement to say you can never run ANY 2 products side by side. 

Out of all the availible products I'm sure there must be some that can get along just fine.

 

The people who say you can't run MB pro with Norton have never posted proof of a problem or even documented a problem.

 

Let us know your results,

Dave

 

Hi Jim,

 

I have known Malwarebytes have said all along that it is compatible with most AV's, but it is drummed into us here so often NOT to use the pro version.  Quads has also said over and over not to use the pro version also.  It was interesting to see  I was one of the lucky last to grab two lifetime copies before they changed to the subscription model, so I thought I may as well give it a go.

 

Thanks for your feedback, it's great to hear you haven't had any issues with running the two together.

 

For now I have the option to install the new version disabled but to notify me, so perhaps by the time v2.01(?) gets pushed to v1.75 users they may of fine tuned it a bit.

 

Dave

Just a hint for new PRO/Premium users:

 

Malwarebytes employee AdvancedSetup posted instructions here in the Norton forum for creating exclusions in NIS 2011 (Settings | Computer | AntiVirus and SONAR Exclusions) for MBAM PRO v. 1.x to minimize any possible conflicts between the Norton and Malwarebytes real-time protection modules.  These are essentially the same instructions provided in the FAQ - Common Issues, Questions and their Solutions post pinned at the top of the MBAM Help forum.  I don't know if these exclusions will have to be tweaked for MBAM Premium v. 2.0, but I'll post back if I find the answer.

 

As I noted here in Inquirer's thread, I ran NIS and MBAM PRO v. 1.x together in real-time protection mode for almost two years and never had a single malware or PUP infection during that time.  I tested my system performance both with and without exclusions for the MBAM executables in my NIS settings and they had no noticeable effect (good or bad) on my system performance so I stopped adding them.

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MS Windows 32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox 28.0 * IE 9.0 * NIS 2013 v. 20.4.0.40 * MBAM PRO 1.75.0.1300
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Good points in this thread.  It's good to finally see a discussion taking place without the usual mindset members that appear with the copy/paste posts, bold-facing to all members, "don't use the Pro version....".

 

I've read the same threads from quietman7 over at Bleepingcomputer.com in addition to posts elsewhere from PC users that have been using MBAM Pro for years without conflicts with mainline AV's.

 

From reading this forum, my perception is that some members are grouping any real-time scanner tool as one entity, regardless of whether it's an antimalware-specific tool or an AV tool.

 

That is the reason that quietman7 posted in the thread Imacri referred to, regarding conflict issues with MBAM Pro.

 

That's where I don't agree with this mindset here as, and I've asked this before, where are the Symantec staff members, Admin, etc, that state clearly that "You should not use Norton AV products simultaneously with MBAM Pro."

 

Of more significance to me is:  Where are the lab test results, and Norton customer's testimonial reports that offer incidences of being infected due to the conflicts between MBAM Pro and Norton's scanners?

 

The MBAM Admin has posted this question at this site and the results were, to me, revealing.... zero replies providing data to substantiate this oft-repeated statement that we read here daily at this forum about the jeopardy of running the Pro version alongside N360 or NIS.

 

I've been here for over a year and am waiting for a definitive post that states this with no ambiguity.

 

Regarding posts that continually link Bleepingcomputer.com threads in attempts to justify the position that running MBAM pro alongside Norton AV's is placing your PC in jeopaedy, I've located numerous posts at that forum that will refute that stance.

 

I'm a member there and have asked quietman7 (a well-respected Bleepingcomputer.com volunteer there with over 30k posts) about this mindset here and his guess is that it's due to Symantec's stance that they would like to be perceived as a product that provides all protection requirements for PC users.

 

That's certainly understandable.

 

However, we've all read here repeatedly, "there's no individual product that can offer 100% protection."  I agree completely with that as well.

 

This is why it's ironic to me, and contradictory, when we see the same members continually posting statements as facts in evidence, when they aren't factual (ie, any secondary real-time scanner tool will result in your PC being vulnerable to harm).

 

Since we acknowledge that there's no one AV or protection product that can provide 100% protection, why do we see repeated recommendations to members to use a reactive scanner (ie MBAM Free ver) when we continually see members arriving at this forum with the same issues, PUP popups, browsers hijacked, etc?

 

DaveH's post includes this sentance that sums it up, in my opinion:

 

"The people who say you can't run MB pro with Norton have never posted proof of a problem or even documented a problem."

 

Regarding expert malware volunteers, it's worth noting something:  Repeating a mantra with dogmatic regularity doesn't necessarily make a statement factual.

 

Also, linking threads elsewhere (ie, Bleepingcomputer.com links, etc) in attempts to justify a mindset here, that's a two-way street.  There are many posts elsewhere, here in this thread as well, from Norton customers that have been running the Pro version for years without conflicts.

 

This was posted by the MBAM Forum Admin recently in a thread over there in response to a Norton customer that was asking about the conflict question:

 

"Our program will not fight over detection or removal with an antivirus program.  We've even asked some antivirus vendors to show verifiable proof that can be replicated to show such behavior and to date no one has provided us this information.  Kaspersky antivirus has a big list of security software that they are not compatible with when using their antivirus but we are not on their list as we do not conflict with their antivirus in that manner."

 

I underlined the part that, to me, is the most significant part of this ongoing debate.  This could be put to rest with one post from a Symantec staff member, providing lab test results of this ongoing insistance of members posting repeatedly about this topic.

 

I've been a member here for about 15 months and, to me, one of the notable effects of this mindset is that we see new members arriving here daily, seeking assistance regarding PUP issues, and they're being provided unsubstantiated advice about this issue which, my opinion, is doing those members a disservice.

 

From MBAM's Knowledge Base section:

 

"Malwarebytes Anti-Malware is engineered specifically not to check files before your antivirus has had a chance to analyze them first, thus preventing conflicts which can occur when two security programs detect the same file as a threat at the same time."

 

Another link from MBAM's Knowledge Base:

 

https://helpdesk.malwarebytes.org/entries/20818081?

 

 

The part of this issue that I've found interesting is some of the replies that I've read and have been posted in replies to me about this topic.

 

This was posted in a reply to a new member that was seeking help with PUP intrusions:

 

"Thank goodness you weren't running the Pro version, otherwise, you'd have been infected."

 

Besides being inaccurate, it's rather pretentious at best, to presume specific information about a member's issue on their PC at that time.

 

I've also read replies to me, with bold-faced font, telling me "When your system crashes (due to MBAM Pro), let us know."

 

Someone else said "Some claim to be able to use the Pro version without issues."

 

Well, I'm here to say it's not a "claim", it's a fact.  MBAM Pro periodically blocks or notifies me that a potential threat or action has been taken whereas, at the same site[s], N360 indicates no issues at those sites.

 

To clarify, this isn't about critiquing Norton AV regarding such detections, it's about the benefits of using a dual-layer protection, ie, a mainline AV tool in addition to an antimalware-specific real-time protection tool.

 

There are numerous posts elsewhere authored by experienced IT people that recommend a dual-layer protection scheme for one's PC.  This is the main reason I installed MBAM Pro in Oct '12.

 

Another long-standing member here posted a reply to another member wich whom they agreed about the topic, "Another battle won."

 

When you read comments like this, it's clear to me that we're dealing with an emotional issue with some members here, and that's unfortunate since that kind of approach tends to shut down discussions that are fact-based.

 

We see that daily in the N360 and NIS forum sections, mainly when new members appear asking for assistance.

 

Bottom line for me is that, regardless of this one topic where I disagree with numerous members, this is one of the best PC/tech forums that I visit regularly.  There's a lot of first-rate advice being dispensed here as well as most members being civil and abstaining from the unfortunate 'net habit of replying with emotional sarcasm.

 

Hopefully, this discussion won't veer into that direction.  I've kept behind the curtain with this topic for a long time since I know it's a "hot-button" topic for some here.  After reading posts here from other respected longtime members that have decided to speak out about this issue, I decided to post my take on the subject.

 

Imacri, thanks for the exclusion list info.  Interestingly, I've not added any exclusions to MBAM Pro (1.75) since it's install.  I'm holding off on installing V2 to allow time for MBAM to resolve some issues with it.

Thanks for your input Scoop.

 

You bring up some good points but I would like to disagree with this:

 

I'm a member there and have asked quietman7 (a well-respected Bleepingcomputer.com volunteer there with over 30k posts) about this mindset here and his guess is that it's due to Symantec's stance that they would like to be perceived as a product that provides all protection requirements for PC users.

 I’m sure you know that of all the other products we reccomend MB is the most frequent and we have reccomended it hundreds if not a thousand times over the years.

 

I’m not aware of a Symantec employee ever suggesting to Gurus to not reccomend another product and a while back when Norton products were mistakenly warning users about uninstalling the free product several Symantec employees worked very hard behind the scenes to get that quickly corrected.

 

Personally I never consider any AV as a first line of defence, I have always been a firm believer in a redundant backup scheme including daily system images.  I also consider myself a low risk to infections because of my safe habits.

 

So I really never used other products very often and although I have MB installed I just did manual scans every few months.

 

But I just purchased 2 licenses and will install the pro version on my main system and see for myself.  It’s not just the possible conflicts I’m worried about, I’m actually more concerned with system performance with 2 products running all the time since I really don’t ever have problems with infections.  (knock on wood).

 

Dave


Krusty13 wrote:

 

I have known Malwarebytes have said all along that it is compatible with most AV's, but it is drummed into us here so often NOT to use the pro version.  Quads has also said over and over not to use the pro version also.


Hi Krusty13:

 

I feel that the dangers of running MBAM in real-time protection mode are often overstated in this forum, but in fairness to Quads, I think he was more concerned about MBAM's ability to safely remove deeply embedded malware without damaging Windows system files.  There have been instances where a malicious zero-day threat, rootkit or bootkit managed to evade a user's real-time anti-virus protection and "hook" itself into important system files.  On occasion, a MBAM scan (whether an on-demand scan using the free version or a scheduled scan in the Premium version) will quarantine an infected Windows system file along with the malware, which could result in a BSOD or loss of Internet connectivity the next time the user boots their system.  As you know, this is a known issue with Norton Power Eraser (NPE) and other scanners that attempt to "fix" some of these nastier malware infections.

If MBAM PRO/Premium users are concerned about this possibility, they can disable automatic quarantining of detected items on the Protection tab of MBAM PRO 1.x (or the Advanced Settings window of MBAM Premium 2.x) and hope that the malware doesn't do serious damage to their system before they can seek help from a malware removal expert.

 

MBAM PRO Automatic Quarantine.png

Be aware, however, that the MBAM Premium v. 2.0 user guide states the following:

Automatically quarantine detected items: When unchecked, any threats detected will not be quarantined immediately. A notification will instead be presented, and you must choose how to respond. If you do not respond within forty (40) seconds, the threat will still be quarantined, but the possibility (however small) exists that the threat could have become active within that timeframe.

This is because Malwarebytes's real-time protection should only automatically quarantine malicious threats that have a high probability of causing serious damage to your Windows OS.  Lower-risk PUPs and PUMs like adware and browser re-directors are not quarantined by MBAM unless the user selects them for removal.

 

MBAM PRO PUP Removal.png

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MS Windows 32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox 28.0 * IE 9.0 * NIS 2013 v. 20.4.0.40 * MBAM PRO 1.75.0.1300
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Hi lmacri,

 

I can't help noticing you've posted images from v1.75 and information from v2.0.  I understand your point about automatically quarantining files and will adjust my settings if and when I upgrade to v2.0.

 

I did try 2.0 again for a short while but even the so called Hyper Scan took around 5 minutes to complete, while Flash Scans in v1.75 take around 30 seconds, so back to an image with v1.75 I went.

 

Dave

Hi, Scoop8,

 

It's clear to me from what you've written that you are trying very hard to be civil--and also that your real beef seems to be with members who have made far more "assertive" (and even sarcastic) statements than I--so first and foremost I want to recognize that. And also that I can tell from your other posts that you've got solid knowledge and make a lot of effort to stick to evidence-based conclusions and steer clear of emotions.

 

However...I would suggest that you do slip a couple of times, into assuming that--just because someone else's evidence-based conclusions and underlying facts diverge from your evidence-based conclusions and underlying facts--the other person isn't writing just as much and just as carefully based on facts in evidence and not emotions.

 

Speaking only for myself, I have actually seen what I consider to be definitve evidence--in great technical detail and with a very large N--of the statistical certainty of running into conflicts when running any two real-time scanners. I'm not a Symantec employee--and I can't share my evidence, based on the environment it comes from--so I can't expect you to change your mind or the advice you give other users based on it, but I do hope you can go a little easier on those of us who are just as certain that there is an issue as you are certain that there's not.

 

We're not [all] overemotional, evidence-free Symantec partisans! :smileywink: (As a matter of fact, I've told folks on a couple of occasions who are wedded to their Malwarebytes that I would rather see them dump Norton and just use Malwarebutes PRO than try to run both together.)

 

V/R,

--DistEd2

Hi DistEd2,

 

"Speaking only for myself, I have actually seen what I consider to be definitve evidence--in great technical detail and with a very large N--of the statistical certainty of running into conflicts when running any two real-time scanners. I'm not a Symantec employee--and I can't share my evidence, based on the environment it comes from--so I can't expect you to change your mind or the advice you give other users based on it, but I do hope you can go a little easier on those of us who are just as certain that there is an issue as you are certain that there's not."


I think I know where you have seen your evidence, but without posting a link or other proof, it really is hearsay.  I tend to think of it a bit like this  -  One program is like A RADAR scanning for incoming aircraft, the other is SONAR watching for sub's.  My understanding of MBAM and Norton is they don't actually overlap in their detections and are looking for different things.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about that though.

Hi, Krusty,

 

You're exactly right; that's why I acknowledged that folks shouldn't be weighing that statement in concluding whether there is or is not a problem, but only that both are evidence-based perspectives, which Scoop8's post did not seem to recognize. In short, for folks who haven't seen enough to form their own evidence-based concusion one way or the other, I would suggest that among the professioanls, the jury is still out.

 

Frankly, in my business you never ignore inconsistent evidence--so even though what I've seen here doesn't stack up well enough to contradict what I've seen there (in terms of my own decisions and what I'll continue to recommend here), it does sound as though this is worth further empirical research....

 

V/R,

--DistEd2


DaveH wrote:

Thanks for your input Scoop.

 

You bring up some good points but I would like to disagree with this:

 

I'm a member there and have asked quietman7 (a well-respected Bleepingcomputer.com volunteer there with over 30k posts) about this mindset here and his guess is that it's due to Symantec's stance that they would like to be perceived as a product that provides all protection requirements for PC users.

 I’m sure you know that of all the other products we reccomend MB is the most frequent and we have reccomended it hundreds if not a thousand times over the years.

 

I’m not aware of a Symantec employee ever suggesting to Gurus to not reccomend another product and a while back when Norton products were mistakenly warning users about uninstalling the free product several Symantec employees worked very hard behind the scenes to get that quickly corrected.

 

Personally I never consider any AV as a first line of defence, I have always been a firm believer in a redundant backup scheme including daily system images.  I also consider myself a low risk to infections because of my safe habits.

 

So I really never used other products very often and although I have MB installed I just did manual scans every few months.

 

But I just purchased 2 licenses and will install the pro version on my main system and see for myself.  It’s not just the possible conflicts I’m worried about, I’m actually more concerned with system performance with 2 products running all the time since I really don’t ever have problems with infections.  (knock on wood).

 

Dave


Dave,

 

Thanks for your reply.  Just to clarify, that was a guess about what we see at this forum from the other member at Bleepingcomputer.com.  It wasn’t mine.

 

I also agree about your reference to Symantec staffers (recommending to avoid a particular tool).  That’s one of my points, they haven’t.  Yet we continue to see the same members posting to all “Don’t use the Pro version…”, without anyone providing data to substantiate their stance on the subject.

 

We’re on the same page regarding “trust but backup”.  We probably don’t trust any AV at all :smileyhappy:

 

Seriously, I trust Norton but only up to a point.  I expect Norton to block ~95%+ of the threats.  That # is only a rough guesstimate for me alone :smileyhappy:  .  I’m happy with that % of success rate since, as you, my main insurance relies on backups.  They’ve worked for me several times over the years when previous AV’s haven’t been able to completely block all effects of some intrusions.

 

I don’t recall the member at the moment, but their postings usually include the line “The best protection resides in the chair”, etc.  I agee completely and it’s well-said :smileyhappy:  I rely on that as do you and it’ll go a long way towards maintaining a clean PC.

 

Ironically, the last time I was affected by a malicious intrusion, it occured at one of my daily reputable 'net sites.  It was one of those “FBI” variants with the intimidating audio voice emanating from my PC speakers :smileyvery-happy:

 

The point there was, no unsafe surfing was in play, no e-mail attachments were opened, OS up to date, etc.  It still happened but “no problem”, I popped in my cloned HDD and was ok in a few minutes.

 

It turned out to be a gift in disguise, since that got me to switch AV’s to Norton since a friend happened to be at the same site when I was talking to him on the phone, and his AV (Norton) blocked the intrusion on his similar WIn 7 PC.  That’s a real-time AV comparison test that’s hard to match :smileyhappy:

 

DistEd2

 

Thanks for your reply.  I’d like to clarify what appears to be some differences of perception, regarding my earlier post.

 

First, thanks for your words :smileyhappy: I’m not that knowledgable about this PC world but I appreciate your curtesy.

 

Second, I’d submit that the suggestion that I’m unwilling to consider the other view regarding this issue, based on ecidence, is inaccurate.

 

To clarify, I’m asking for fact-based evidence, not yet provided at this forum, to substantiate the oft-mentioned stance of conflics with MBAM’s Pro version and Norton AV’s.  I haven’t been continually posting in multiple threads on the point that it’s 100% safe to run the 2 real-time tools simultaneously.  I have provided 15 months on 2 PC’s (now 3, since I’ve installed the Pro version on my Mom’s PC), in addition to fellow members that have been running Pro alongside their Norton AV for years.  There is one such member that has posted in this particular thread that can attest to this.

 

Third, regarding abstaining to post your evidence to support your stance on this issue due to proprietary reasons, I respect that and appreciate your being forthright about sharing this reason.

 

However, is it your contention that the other members, of which there are more than a few, are all restricted from providing test data to substantiate the position of avoiding the Pro version in conjunction with Norton AV for the same reasons of being unable to reveal the data for proprietary reasons?  If so, perhaps that’s the case but that would seem, to me, to be somewhat unsual to assume that this applies to all members that agree with your stance on this issue.  Would you agree?

 

Forth, this isn’t about me “going a little easier” on those that support your point of view on this issue, is it?  Please re-read my previous post again.  Those of us that have been questioning this stance have not seen evidence provided.  Conversly, I’m not insisting that I am correct about this issue.  I’m asking for evidence to support the repeated postings at this forum.  It’s not the other way around.

 

Fifth, I’m sure there are those that are “wedded” to MBAM.  I’m not in that category.  If I had to choose between the 2, I’d uninstall MBAM and keep Norton.  I think we’d all choose that path.

 

Sixth, having read your post moments ago, I have recognized the point in my previous post.  It’s not a question about ignoring anything, it’s a question about providing evidence to support the repeated stance made by numerous members at this forum regarding avoiding the Pro version usage simultaneously with Norton AV’s.

 

In my opinion, ignoring something refers to someone refusing to acknowledge many testimonials, some here, and many elsewhere, of home PC users that are running the Pro version alongside mainline AV products, including Norton’s AV.

 

We do agree on this, if I have understood your recent post:  Folks shouldn’t be weighing statements, in particular, those that continue to insist that running MBAM Pro will place one’s PC in jeopardy due to scanner conflicts, unless they provide data that coincides with such statements.

 

My belief is to research and question a point that is continually being stated as if in fact, when evidence is lacking to validate said point.  It works both ways, that’s my point.  It’s not about the numbers, ie, the same members posting the same points repeatedly.  It’s about providing real-life results, either from lab tests or members providing their specific experiences.

 

It’s time for me to “go back behind the curtain” on this issue, I think :smileyvery-happy:   It’s one of those “agree to disagree” topics, from what I’ve seen at this forum.  That’s ok, it happens in every forum environment that I’ve seen on the 'net.

 

I gave my input here because other members offered their’s that differed from the oft-repeated alternate point ot view.

 

It's only been one day but I used my system a lot yesterday. 

 

My main concern was how it would effect the usability of the system since this is an older system with rather low specifications.

I have not done any benchmarks but to me I have not "felt" any diference or experianced any slowdown or lags at all.

 

One thing I did notice is that the MB service seems rather heavy in RAM usage.

I have never seen it go down below 144,000KB, even when the system is idle for a long time.   That seems odd and I'm sure some improvement can be done.  I usually have both the Norton Services combined drop down to 30,000KB or less when it's not doing anything.

When I add the MB program and scheduler to that it's over 200MB at idle and I consider that heavy.

But like I said I don't notice any slowdown.

 

I have no problem when a program is in use to use a lot of RAM and CPU when it's dong something useful but always using that much RAM would be my main gripe.

 

My second little issue is the "ads" displayed about online backup, business version, blogs, etc.

I would rather not see that stuff on a paid product.  It's perfectly acceptable for a free product but once you pay for it you should not have to see it. 

 

I installed it using all the default settings except I excluded some of my data and backup drives.

 

When doing any of the scans with MB, I do not see any increase in the Norton services.   If I have no other programs running during the scan I see the Norton services drop down to 0 CPU usage and only once in a while go up a few percent.

That leads me to believe they are not fighting each other.  If the Norton services spiked up considerably or constantly I would be concerned but that does not seem to be happening.

 

I also ran them both at the same time without any problems:

 

DualScan.jpg

 

 

 

Since this is one of my main systems and not one of my test systems I can't do any tests with malware detections.  It's also only been one day so I have not done too much on it but I did use the internet a lot, downloaded some things and tried some file transfers to and from other system, and did a lot of my normal business work without any problems so far.

 

But so far I have not had a single problem and when I get a chance I will load it up on my test system alongside norton and try to install some malware on it.

 

Dave

 

 

Hi again, Scoop8,

 

There appear to be a few misunderstandings about what I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to say you weren't considering the other point of view.  What I was objecting to was your seeming to assume that the other point of view isn't based on facts and evidence, because pretty much only anecdotal evidence has been provided on this issue--to be honest, on either side of the issue, not just mine. So there were a couple of points where it was difficult not to get offended, because I'm a professional researcher who has reached that conclusion based on a very senior leadership role in an organization that has a great deal of empirical evidence to base it on. Remember, "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

We need to bear in mind that this is a forum where users help each other. That carries a very different standard of evidence than, say, a debate club--to say nothing of a scholarly journal or a Congressional hearing. If a forum volunteer happens, from years of helping other Norton customers here, or similar work on other forums, to have seen literally dozens of cases where running Malwarebytes PRO alongside Norton has caused various issues, they're not likely to present all their evidence: most users wouldn't understand it, and of those who did, most would find it boring and unnecessary (as they probably do our exchange here). After all, they're just here to get their computer fixed, and we're just here to help them. And for that, simply saying, "this is what I know from my experience here" is enough.

 

What's more, it's about as much time & effort as they're willing to put into this. Remember, it's not a job, it's just "paying it forward." So when somebody like you, who has evidence that suggests something different, asks them to present their evidence, odds are they're just going to ignore it and get back to helping users who are having trouble. I'm pretty impressed that we have as many of us here as we do who are interested in the deeper scientific discussion we're trying to have on the subject!

 

So to return to my original point, I know several folks here who have arrived at the same conclusion I have based on at least as much evidence as you've said you have, whether they're saying it here or not. To echo your point, that doesn't meant we're right, either. Nor, in fact, does the much larger and more formal evidence I've referred to. But it does mean that our conclusions aren't "based on emotion" any more than yours are. They're based on our experience, whatever that may be.

 

And whatever that may be, sharing that is why we are here--and why enough forum participants have trusted and benefitted from what we have to say as our stats suggest. So I was just asking--perhaps too discreetly--that you be a little more careful about not characterizing what we have to say as based on emotion instead of fact. We can't rightly ask you--as I noted in my original response--to change your conclusion based on our evidence if (for my reason or any of the other reasons I've noted this time) we don't choose to present it. But we can ask you to give us the same respect we give you, despite not having seen anything more than your assertion that you have evidence either, of believing you when you say you have it and respecting our right to advise folks here based upon our respective, evidence-based judgments.

 

As to my comment about ignoring inconsistent evidence, I seem to have been unclear: that statement was a nod to you, saying that just because your evidence still doesn't sway me, when stacked up against the evidence I have, doesn't mean I'm just blowing it off. I'm taking the (somewhat surprising, given what I've seen here to date) degree of dissent I've seen in this thread to mean that even folks like me may want to go back and double-check our work...because however small the chance--given our evidence--that we might be wrong, the cost of such an error would be...well, about as serious as the costs to folks running two real-time scanners together if they're not really as secure as they think they are....

 

Finally, slipping into my Guru role--a role which I suspect you might see someday yourself, if you continue the level of contributions I've seen--this conversation does make me wonder whether there might be a place for a "security hypotheses and evidence" forum or something of the sort. While the standard of evidence I've alluded to above may be plenty for the "normal" forums where people are just trying to get their computer problems solved, we do periodically encounter significant differences of opinion that could have an effect on the quality of advice we're giving out--where more formal research and discussion of evidence might be in order. And we do occasionally have users like yourself who have taken a couple PCs, or a house full of Windows, Mac, iOS & Android platforms, a small business network of a dozen or so systems, or an "airgapped" test PC that can be deliberastely put at risk of infection and run a more formal experiment. So what if we could tie those threads together?

 

It does seem possible that there might be some benefit to having a place here for that level of discussion too. Where somebody like you could stand up and say "OK, it's time we actually validate or refute this "two real-time scanners" theory. What evidence do folks have one way or the other?" And the people with the test machines, tech skills, and time could work out an experinmental design and what the criteria for judging the results should be, and let the (micro)chips fall where they may! :smileywink:

 

What do other folks think?

 

V/R,

--DistEd2

 


DaveH wrote:

 

When I add the MB program and scheduler to that it's over 200MB at idle and I consider that heavy....

 

My second little issue is the "ads" displayed about online backup, business version, blogs, etc. I would rather not see that stuff on a paid product.


Hi DaveH:

Thanks for the feedback.  Memory usage is one of my big concerns since I also have an older machine with 3 GB of RAM.  AdvancedSetup posted here in the MBAM forum that memory usage of approx.120 MB for MBAMService.exe (165 MB in total with MBAM.exe and MBAMScheduler.exe included) for v. 2.0 on a Win8 machine "is probably not too far off", so your 200 MB in total at idle might be a bit on the high side but still in the general range of what's expected.

There were lots of complaints about the advertising banner during v. 2.0 beta-testing, and Exile posted here that users will likely have the option to disable the ads in a future update.  I noticed the CEO's announcement of the official release of MBAM 2.0 here stated "We could have gone other routes to make our business more financially sustainable, like adding toolbars or advertisements like many other security products have, but that's not the company we are."  I guess ads for other in-house Malwarebytes products and services don't count in his world. :smileyhappy:
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MS Windows 32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox 28.0 * IE 9.0 * NIS 2013 v. 20.4.0.40 * MBAM PRO 1.75.0.1300
HP Pavilion dv6835ca, Intel Core2Duo CPU T5550 @ 1.83 GHz, 3.0 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

Sccop,

 

<< I don't recall the member at the moment, but their postings usually include the line "The best protection resides in the chair", etc.  I agee completely and it's well-said :smileyhappy:  I rely on that as do you and it'll go a long way towards maintaining a clean PC.  >>

 

That's not me! I say "the greatest danger to your PC lies between the left ear and the right ear of the user ....." <s>

 

But it gives me an excuse comment on:

 

<< Seriously, I trust Norton but only up to a point.  I expect Norton to block ~95%+ of the threats.  That # is only a rough guesstimate for me alone :smileyhappy:  .  I'm happy with that % of success rate since, as you, my main insurance relies on backups.  They've worked for me several times over the years when previous AV's haven't been able to completely block all effects of some intrusions.  >>

 

I trust many things that are not perfect ..... otherwise I'd have some major problems.

 

So far as conflicts between say Malwarebytes and Norton and especially as MBM adds a feature we know to be used in Norton (heuristics) I would be very concerned just on first principles of logic about what happens when both assess the same item and come up with different results? Does the one that says it's OK try to stop the one that says it's malware deciding that the latter AV is itself malware trying to delete an essential file? ANd if successful then it is letting the malware in ......

 

Another element is that if you install Norton on a system containing Microsoft Security Essentials/Defender the Microsoft application is disabled -- I don't know who does which to what but someone is saying don't run two protectors at the same time.

 

And then the other unknown is how can one be certain, as a user, whether or not the two applications are interfering with each other? Do you really want to wait until you have a malware infection and then say Duh! I should have known better than to run two applications at once ..... and how do you know if the intrusion is due to that or to just that neither application was aware of the invader since as we agree above neither are perfect .....

 

For me it is much simpler to trust Norton but verify ... ie to use something like MBM in its on demand version to check from time to time or if I think something is not as it should be.

 

Just my 2¢ ... or maybe a nickel's worth ...