Windows Defender completely corrupted - won't turn on

Norton Security | Norton Internet Security
1

I have a laptop and a desktop both running N360 on Windows 8 Pro x64 (clean installations).

 

It all started when I uninstalled N360 v20.4 from my laptop to try the beta (v.21). I removed it through the control panel. After restarting and before installing the beta, I thought to try and see how Windows Defender works, since I had never actually used it. I couldn't turn it on through the Action Center. When I pressed "turn on" in the security warning, the "system32" folder popped up. I tried running the Norton Removal Tool to remove any leftovers and restart. Nothing changed. I searched the internet about the problem and started digging deeper. There are more users with the same issue, some of them have Norton, others have different 3rd party AV products. Apparently there is no solution. But the frightening part is that when I run the Windows Resource Protection (admin command prompt, sfc /scannow), it took forever and it found corrupted Windows files unable to repair them. I even tried running this command during boot (from the installation disc) but the results where the same. Finally, I tried the program Windows Repair (tweaking.com) which is supposed to restore almost any problem with Windows. It failed as well.

 

I went back to my desktop to run the sfc /scannow command to search for corrupted files. It did find and they where also unrepairable. The Windows installation on my desktop is recent (less than a month). My laptop has Windows 8 since they where available.

 

In conclusion:

- Windows Defender won't turn on

- Clicking "turn on" on the Action center notification launches the system32 folder

- Corrupted files are on both systems - unfixable even on boot

- Searching for Windows Defender on the startscreen and clicking on it displays a message that the program is turned off without giving the option to turn back on

- The Windows Defender service will not launch through services and the startup type (manual, automatic) is grayed out as disabled.

 

Extra problems:

- Norton antitheft wont install. It was removed from my laptop when running the removal tool I suspect. (I'll probably create another thread about it)

 

Is this a Microsoft problem or Norton related? I suspect Norton, having in mind the fact that there was a problem in communication with the Action Center going on for months.

I'm also deeply concerned about security, since the integrity of the system files was compromised and I had to find that out incidentally.

 

I would appreciate any help

Thanks,

John

2

May have not checked for the regisrty key,   but looking at what they have done, one I would not like to touch

 

Quads

3

When a system is set up for a 3rd party AV like Norton  so there is no conflict

 

 

 

Windows Defender:
==============
WinDefend Service is not running. Checking service configuration:
The start type of WinDefend service is set to Demand. The default start type is Auto.
The ImagePath of WinDefend service is OK.
The ServiceDll of WinDefend service is OK.


Windows Defender Disabled Policy:
==========================
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows Defender]
"DisableAntiSpyware"=DWORD:1

 

 

Quads

4

Windows defender is turned OFF/Disabled automatically if norton 360 is installed on a Windows 8 Machine

5

@ MehulBhai

 

You didn't read my post.

 

Does N360 disable or destroy Windows Defender and the rest of the Windows system files?

6

@ Quads

 

The service start type is set to Manual and is grayed out (cannot edit). I can't locate the rest of the configuration you are describing.

 

The registry key cannon be changed - access is denied (both when having, or having not N360 removed).

 

I'm really worried about the corrupted system files (which are not repairable), but I also don't want to format an already recent clean Windows 8 installation. And what if Norton is causing the corruption?

7

Defender will not turn on if N360 is installed and N360 installation will not corrupt files of defender

8

Did Win8 come installed on a new laptop, or did you upgrade an older system?

 

If it was a new computer, did you check to see if there was any other security software installed as trial versions? They could be conflicting with Norton and Windows and will have to be fully removed using the removal utility from that software.

 

If you have Windows file corruption that the sfc scan cannot fix, you should try a repair installation of Windows. Boot into Safe Mode and select repair Windows. Follow the prompts from there. This will not nuke your old install, just repair your existing. You should check for Windows updates after the repair.

 

You noted the Action Center not showing Norton's status. That was a Windows issue that affected all third party security software and was fixed by Microsoft.

 

 

 

9

On both systems I had Windows 7, I formatted and installed Windows 8. The desktop installation is very recent because I added a new hard drive. The laptop installation is since October 2012. There are no trial software.

 

It is really strange that both systems have corrupt files. As I said previously, I found out when trying to turn on Windows Defender on my laptop after uninstalling Norton360.

 

I did try to repair the Windows installation through the installation media (before trying to run the sfc /scannow command on boot). But the option given is to repair problems that prevent startup. The result was "windows was unable to find problems" or something similar...

 

What do you mean from safe mode? Is there an option to repair in safe mode? Did you mean on boot or are you suggesting to run sfc during safe mode?

 

I'm thinking of creating two lists of the programs installed on my PCs to try and find out which are common and could have caused the problem. Unfortunately, I can't remember which programs have been installed and already removed from each system. I'm scared in the idea of having to format my PCs and then find out the same problem.

 

Could someone run the sfc /scannow command to see if he does have corrupted files? Could that be a problem from the latest Norton update (20.4) ?

10

The Windows Policy overrides, so that Windows Defender won't start.  Jusr sonds like the user does not realise what they are dealing with so could cause problems.

 

Quads 

11

tzon89

 

At this point it might be worth putting the Win 8 media into your DVD drive and just running Setup again. Choose to do an upgrade install and all your settings and programs should remain.

 

If that does not fix things, there may be some Windows settings and permissions that have been changed/corrupted. Someone with more experience in that area would have to step in here, as that is beyond my experience.

 

 

 

12

For other users reading the blocking of Windows Defender running is done for 3rd party AV's and should stay.  When looking at logs I leave the fact Windows Defender can't start  and even blocking the user as that due to Norton. The policy setting blocks the user(s) also from the Windows Defender settings, so that would be the reported "greyed out" I suspect.

 

The user has used tools, but shouldn't have even though the likes of Tweaking.com won't change these policies or settings as they are not bad, it is ment to be.

 

On a search users without Norton but with other AV's from time to time do report Windows Defender,  and has not been a corrupt WD, just the way it is on purpose set up.

 

Quads

13

I opened the Local Group Policy Editor and found some policies for Windows Defender which are on their default state (not configured). So the problem has nothing to do with any applied Windows policies.

 

For sure the problem is corrupted files, but the question remains: what caused them and why can't they be repaired?

 

I've read a lot of unresolved threads on Microsoft Answers about the matter (Windows Defender not turning on), I just can't verify it is Norton or Windows.

 

Yesterday I installed Windows 8.1 Preview on my laptop since I do not perform any critical activities with it. The result was Windows Defender turning on automatically and N360 disappearing as a running service (not from the Control Panel). All other programs and files where left intact.

 

I think the only thing left is to perform an in place upgrade of Windows 8 on my desktop to repair the installation, as peterweb suggests.

 

Thanks everybody for your time

14

<< Yesterday I installed Windows 8.1 Preview on my laptop since I do not perform any critical activities with it. The result was Windows Defender turning on automatically and N360 disappearing as a running service (not from the Control Panel). All other programs and files where left intact.  >>

 

Note that the preview Windows 8.1 presently available is a complete copy of Windows 8.1 and so on my understanding it completely overwrites the existing 8.0 so it's not an upgrade in the sense of just changing what is different.

 

So it will have replaced Windows Defender files and since Norton 360 is not an "app" I presume it is not there any more. Can you tell us about any other "normal" applications that you have had installed on the Windows 8 machine before you ran the Windows 8.1 .... are they still there?

 

This would help me in the support I do elsewhere -- I've not had time to run it myself yet.

 

BTW For those interested the ISO fies for 8.1 are now available.

15

Yes, apparently Windows 8.1 was a full installation (like an upgrade) as it took too much time to complete and restarted my PC about 5 times. All of my desktop programs where left intact, operating normally:

 

Adobe reader, utorrent, ashampoo burning studio, google earth, Microsoft Office, Paint.net, Recuva, Skype, SketchUp, RETScreen, SyncToy, VLC, WinRAR and more.

 

Norton 360 was also left but was not running. I'm not sure if it was running in the background, only with the UI service missing, but the Action Center reported only Windows Defender installed and turned on. When I run the Norton uninstaller from the Control Panel it launched normally and then it prompted for a restart. My laptop appears to work fine...

16

Thanks for the feedback on the desktop applications surviving the installation of WIN 8.1

 

I do wish Microsoft had not apparently decided to use "apps" for both kinds of programs.

 

I suspect that if you had turned OFF Defender manually as I think you can in the Action Center then either N360 would have taken over perhaps after a reboot ..... or maybe a check of Subscription Status. It would be interesting to know.

 

But you have uninstalled it now?

17

Updates and latest findings...

 

I installed N360 on my laptop with Windows 8.1 Preview. Windows informs me that "this program has compatibility issues". Although N360 runs normally and can be launched from the notification area, it cannot be launched from the desktop shortcut because the compatibility notification pops up, giving the option to get help or close. Action Center reports ok!

 

Norton Anti-theft still won't install on my laptop (upgraded to 8.1). When I try to install, the uninstaller launches creating an endless restart-requiring loop. I've posted the problem on this thread http://community.norton.com/t5/Norton-Anti-Theft/Cannot-install-Norton-Antitheft-uninstaller-loop/td-p/981057 . I will probably contact chat support to get it fixed, as advised.

 

I uninstalled N360 from my desktop and Windows Defender turned on the moment I clicked on the Action Center notification! Apparently the corrupted files issue on my desktop and laptop where not both affecting Windows Defender. Or maybe, file corruption on the laptop had nothing to do with WD and the problem is something else. Still, I don't know how to fix the corruption issue, unless I reinstall Windows.

 

Finally, I reinstalled N360 on my desktop and everything seems to be ok. I haven't check my laptop for corruptions, but I guess there won't be any.

18

tzon,

 

<< I installed N360 on my laptop with Windows 8.1 Preview. Windows informs me that "this program has compatibility issues".  >>

 

Tony has posted that, for NIS anyway, this is a known problem that Microsoft plans to fix in the next update to WIN 8.1 <g>

19

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